Telling stories through film and conversation.
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WILDsound's The Film Podcast

In each episode, the C.E.O. of WILDsound, Matthew Toffolo, chats about all things storytelling and film. Conversations with talented individual from all around the world.

EP. 1388 - Filmmaker Rafael Puga Valega (WIN/WIN)

WIN/WIN, 5min., USA
Directed by Rafael Puga Valega
A group of friends gathers to drink beer and play cards after their national football team suffers a tough defeat in a tournament. While playing one of them mentions an interesting idea on how to confront the team situation

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt32642576/?ref_=hm_rvi_tt_t_1

Get to know the filmmaker:

What motivated you to make this film?

I basically wanted to start my first steps as a filmmaker with a short film that wasn’t difficult (or too difficult) to produce and that also had a short runtime. This story fitted well with that.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

I was afraid of hearing them at first, but I had already seen the film had won an award for best story so I felt they were going to be mostly positive. And I was glad after hearing them most of the time! Still I have to admit I heard them in low volume for the first time just in case hahaha. But I think that’s my way when dealing with reactions or reviews.

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EP. 1387 - Filmmaker Graham Birch (AN ADVERT FOR ONE NIGHT)

AN ADVERT FOR ONE NIGHT, 15min,. UK
Directed by Graham Birch
Lisa responds to a newspaper advert to meet Sarah in a hotel room for a night. They meet and have a wonderful night that sadly uncovers that one was badly abused and the other is currently suffering serious mental and physical bullying from a partner. Will this allow them to bond? What will they do?

What motivated you to make this film?

My friend was going through an abusive relationship at the time and it was terrifying. He was psychologically destroyed. So I flipped it to the more common female perspective as it is simply not acceptable. Domestic abuse isn’t just physical. It’s wider than that and destroys people.

I also wanted to highlight the dangers of getting drunk and thinking you are in control of a situation. I want people to watch the film and maybe question if they should go home with that person. Particularly when you are young and at a night club. I always tried not to let my friends go off alone (male or female) as there are people who are simply not good.

I also wanted to create a film of exquisite beauty and use the lighting to enhance everything. You’ll notice that the colours change in the film, sometimes suddenly, sometimes from scene to scene. Showing differing emotions and settings.

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EP. 1386 - Filmmaker Sammy Verni (LOW DOWN LARRY CONQUERS THE MOON MEN)

LOW DOWN LARRY CONQUERS THE MOON MEN, 4min., USA
Directed by Sammy Verni
At the height of the Space Race in July 1969, Larry Johnson and his trusty sidekick Spike, endeavor to be the first man (and dog) to set foot (and paw) on the Moon.

Get to know the filmmaker:

What motivated you to make this film?

Low Down Larry Conquers the Moon Men is the first in a series of shorts that I have made based on a comic book character I used to draw when I was about ten years old. I see it as a love letter to that time in my life, as well as an homage to sci fi b movies, classic stop motion and the Saturday morning cartoons that I grew up with.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

I was happy to see the reviewers understood the style, the inspiration and the humor of the film. They even made me aware of some plot points and themes I hadn’t even considered when I was creating the story!

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EP. 1385 - Screenwriter Carlos Galinho (DOWNBURST)

Watch the Screenplay Reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cldgPYKZKnY

Get to know the screenwriter:

What is your screenplay about?
The central topic is a wildfire that grows uncontrollably, generating its own micro-weather followed by a downburst, which spreads destructive and fast winds of fire, while different civil defense officers try to fight it and save lives. It is a multicharacter plot, focusing on different layers of drama. At the same time, it’s also a conspiracy thriller, as a journalist tries to uncover the causes behind it.

What genres does your screenplay fall under?
Action, thriller, drama

Why should this screenplay be made into a movie?
First if all, it’s full of action and drama, possibly the main “ingredients” of any Hollywood blockbuster. Then, it’s a genuine, dramatic and heroic story with uncommon elements: wildfires are rarely depicted in movies; and, the story, which may seem incredible and fictional, was actually based on true events that no one could ever predict. So, if I do say so myself, I think it would be a great movie, something between “Band of Brothers” and “Dante’s Peak”.

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EP. 1384 - Filmmaker Patrice Leung (12 ANGRY LESBIANS)

12 ANGRY LESBIANS, 22min,. Canada

Directed by Patrice Leung

A comedic riff on '12 Angry Men' set in the early 1990s, featuring a group of lesbians stuck in their team's annual softball meeting. This short film explores the diversity within 'diversity', and its tortuous need for democracy to triumph at all costs.

Conversation with Patrice Leung about her foray into narrative short film after an unbelievable 40-year career as a First Assistant Director.

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EP. 1383 - Filmmaker Jonathan Derksen (VOICES FOR MADIDI)

VOICES FOR MADIDI, 24min., Canada
Directed by Jonathan Derksen
Bolivia’s Madidi National Park is considered to be the most biodiverse place on planet earth. The Uchupiamonas people, who call the park home, are in a constant battle against forces eager to exploit the protected area for its hydroelectric potential, hardwoods and gold. In this documentary, we hear from of the eco-warriors at the front lines.

https://www.instagram.com/jonathanderksen/

Get to know the filmmaker:

The Madidi area of the Bolivian Amazon is perhaps the most biodiverse place on earth. I first visited the area in 1982 as a teenager, when a group of friends and I ventured down the Beni River in a motorized dugout canoe during the rainy season, only to almost meet our fate in deadly rapids, whirl pools and a maze of giant tree snags. Fortunately, we were taken in by some Moseten hunters, who fed us and gave us shelter until the rains abated and we could carry on.

I returned to the area in the nineties as a photojournalist on a national parks beat, then, in 2007 as an expedition leader. In 2008, I filmed with National Geographic on Bolivia’s infamous “Death Road” traversing the Andes to the Amazon. In 2016 and 2017, I worked on a coffee table book “Madidi: an uncertain future” with photographer Sergio Ballivian.

On each expedition, I interacted with the extraordinary Uchupiamonas people, who taught me the ways of the jungle and the profound importance of protecting such unparalleled biodiversity. They also educated me about the various existential threats to the region and its indigenous people. This lit a fire under me.

In 2023, I returned with a film crew in hopes of bringing their story to the rest of the world, culminating in “Voices for Madidi”, a bilingual expression of the eco-warriors serving the front lives of a little-publicized battle.

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EP. 1382 - Fifi Fleshwound/Erin Knitis & Little Mary Switchblade/Mary Hawkins (SKATE FAST TURN LEFT)

SKATE FAST TURN LEFT, 1min., USA
Directed by Mary Hawkins
Two friends, Fifi Fleshwound and Little Mary Switchblade, have a quick conversation about their roller derby years…

http://tookaturn.com/
https://www.instagram.com/thngstookaturn/

Get to know the filmmaker:

What motivated you to make this film?

My friend Andrea came up with Things Took a Turn, and I’d wanted to submit ever since I’d heard about it. It’s an animation anthology for women and gender minorities, and it just sounded like good weird fun… I told Fifi about it, since I’m not a writer-of-things and she is, and we chatted a bunch about ways to react to the prompt for that season: the End of the World. We’d meet in a diner, talk for about fifteen minutes about how we were going to approach the project and then veer off into old derby gossip. Eventually, I told her that we needed to nail things down and while we were at it… why didn’t we make the film about us and our experiences. We’d been coming up with little fictional scenarios, but our actual experience was better and more interesting. We’d put years of work into roller derby. It’s an all-consuming hobby and a really interesting community.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

I loved the reactions! People put so much love and thought into their feedback and I really enjoyed hearing what they had to say, especially since most of the people who’ve talked to me about my film have been people I already have a connection to, either because they’re friends or also played roller derby or live in NYC. To see that total strangers were also interested in my film and really got what it was about really made my morning. My movie is only 45 seconds long. so nearly any description of the film is longer than the film itself.

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EP. 1381 - Filmmakers Cherie Carson, David Creech (SEQUOIA SPIRITS)

SEQUOIA SPIRITS, 12min., USA
Directed by Cherie Carson, David Creech
“Sequoia Spirits” is a playful vertical dance film which peers deep into the heart and soul of a Redwood Grove. Under the great canopy of California’s majestic coastal giants, we get a glimpse into the elements that bring life to the woods – fire, water and earth.

http://www.upswingaerialdance.org/
https://www.facebook.com/UpSwingAerialDanceCompany/
https://twitter.com/cc_upswing
https://www.instagram.com/upswingaerial

Get to know the filmmakers:

What motivated you to make this film?

Cherie- The desire to bring awareness to the beautiful Redwoods and to create and share vertical dance merging art and nature.

David – As an artist and filmmaker, it is great fun as well as a great challenge to combine film with other art forms. It is so satisfying when all the elements come together and magic happens.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

Cherie- Wonderfully surprised, happy that it resonated with the audience so well

David- I was pleased to see and hear how much thought went into the viewers answers. I felt proud that they actually felt the way I had hoped they would after watching the film. My definition of successful Art.

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EP. 1380 - (WILDsound Actors Podcast) J.C. Williams (HOME SWISS HOME)

Hannah Enhman chats with Canadian actor J.C. Williams about his leading role in the feature film “Home Swiss Home”.

HOME SWISS HOME, 72min., Switzerland
Directed by Geert Smets
Mike, a defiant New Yorker, is left by his girlfriend Julie, who argues that he doesn't have the necessary means to provide for the future family she so desperately wants. Determined to win her back, he sets out to secure his long-awaited promotion.

Follow Interviewer Hannah Ehman on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ehmanhannah/

Watch Hannah’s national commercial spots: https://www.ispot.tv/topic/actor-actress/bP8/hannah-ehman

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EP. 1379 - Writer Jean-Sebastien Surena & Director Suswana Chowdhury (DARK CIRCLES)

DARK CIRCLES, 4min., USA
Directed by Suswana Chowdhury
“Dark Circles” is a surrealist short poetry film directed and produced by Suswana Chowdhury, and written by Jean-Sebastien Surena.

Get to know the writer Jean-Sebastien Surena & director Suswana Chowdhury:

What motivated you to make this film?

Jean: Sometimes I write poems that I feel beg to be consumed in a different medium. This is a piece I’ve very seldom read out loud, and have never published anywhere. The moment it was written, I knew I wanted to visualize it in some way. I sat on it for a long time, as I don’t like to rush into projects that extend to mediums I’m not as well versed in. But once I started collaborating with Suswana on other projects, and saw the care with which she handles my work, I knew it was only a matter of time until I’d finally be able to bring this work onto the screen.

Suswana: After Jean and I made our first poetry film together, “Unbroken,” we were ready to make more. I’ve always been interested in creating interdisciplinary art as I grew up creating in all these separate mediums – theater, film, poetry, dance, photography – and I wanted to explore where and how these forms can intersect. “Dark Circles” was an opportunity to translate Jean’s beautiful poetic language into cinematic language and push the visual and sonic artistry further than we did with our first project.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

Jean: My first thought upon hearing the feedback was “they get it.” Which was so important to me, because I know my words will always make more sense in my head than on paper. One of the challenges of a poet is conveying at least some of what you’re thinking to a reader/listener. And I’m grateful to have had an audience that gets it, and was moved by not just the words, but the entirety of our presentation.

Suswana: To be completely honest, I started tearing up after hearing the first person speak about the film. To know that the intentions of the project really came through and resonated with the audience made me feel like okay, I’m not crazy. Well, I am crazy, but it’s good crazy.

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EP. 1378 - Filmmaker Katherine Costal (TRUE ROMANCE)

TRUE ROMANCE, 29min., Canada
Directed by Katherine Costal
A lovesick teenager tries to rekindle her relationship with a past boyfriend by inviting him to a surprise party, only to discover the harsh truth behind their romance and the love lives of the guests.

https://www.instagram.com/kat_costal/

Get to know the filmmaker:

What motivated you to make this film?

I got the idea for it after watching other people’s love lives, and seeing all the emotionally immature and unaffectionate behaviours they encountered. I noticed that a lot of people fall into these kinds of relationships but it happens most commonly to the younger crowd. I wanted to depict some of those dynamics from an outside perspective and show what observing the dating culture can look like. I think that when you’re in your teens and early twenties, love and romance can be too serious of a thing for you to know how to navigate, so your early relationships will likely end badly. For that reason I think it can be difficult to find love in the world when you’re a hopeless romantic. At the same time, there’s societal pressure to begin dating at a young age, and that pressure’s just not necessary when it’s perfectly okay to be single and use that time to understand yourself. I wanted to tell people that they shouldn’t be disheartened by the hurtful or incompatible behaviour they may experience, and that they should wait for the person that satisfies the idea of romance they have.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

I enjoyed hearing the audience’s thoughts and what they each took away from the film. I especially appreciated how a lot of them identified the types of relationships I was depicting and I hope that they understood the satirical nature of this film. It was fun to see them react to the conflicts and listen to how they perceived the surrealistic way the characters talked and behaved. I had speculated before what viewers would think of the semi-surrealism that I put into it so the feedback video is very helpful to me in gauging that. I really liked how each of them seemed to have their own favourite thing about the film and it’s nice to hear their opinions.

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EP. 1377 - Screenwriter Sarah Edmonds (KEVIN’S NOT DEAD)

Watch the Screenplay Reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcVED8gwsec

https://www.instagram.com/saraheedmonds/

G-man and Greg are just two guys trying to get through the day by doing the bare minimum. However, when a vampire hunter appears at their place of business, the pair start to suspect that their sunscreen-loving coworker Kevin is her target. After a few near-misses with the hunter’s traps, G-man and Greg decide to put their lives on the line to save Kevin from her murderous plot—even if he is undead.

Get to know the writer:

What is your screenplay about?

“Kevin’s Not Dead” is about two small town mechanics who are suddenly roped into helping a Romanian vampire hunter fulfill her quest for revenge. However, when her target turns out to be their strange but seemingly harmless coworker, they start to question whose side they’re really on.

What genres does your screenplay fall under?

This screenplay is a horror comedy (emphasis on the comedy).

Why should this screenplay be made into a movie?

I’m a bit biased, obviously, but I think the biggest draw for this screenplay in terms of production value is just that it’s fun! This screenplay offers a campy take on the vampire film that offers a nod to the classics while also keeping a more lighthearted contemporary tone throughout that I think works well for attracting both horror and non-horror fans alike. It’s a relatively self-contained script, as well, which is hopefully appealing in terms of set and budget demands. I think it strikes a good balance of being a low-budget option with a fairly broad audience appeal.


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EP. 1376 - Filmmaker Serkan Aktaş (RESURRECTION UNDER THE OCEAN)

RESURRECTION UNDER THE OCEAN, 3min., Turkey, Experimental
Directed by Serkan Aktaş
“Resurrection under the Ocean” is about the resurrection of a man who was helplessly sinking to the bottom of the ocean, after falling to the bottom of the ocean, with a symbolic narrative.

Get to know the filmmaker:

What motivated you to make this film?

“Making Resurrection under the Ocean was driven by a deep personal and creative desire to explore themes of human resilience and transformation in the face of adversity. The ocean has always been a powerful metaphor for the unknown, for both the depths of the human experience and the mysteries that lie beyond our comprehension. I wanted to create a story that reflected the fragility and strength of life, much like the ocean itself—where vast, powerful forces exist beneath the surface, often unseen.
The inspiration also came from my fascination with the idea of rebirth. In many ways, the ocean represents a kind of infinite possibility, a place where life can be both created and destroyed. This duality resonated with me on a personal level, and I wanted to explore the transformative power of human experience, especially in the face of environmental change and the shifting tides of society.


The film also stems from my love of storytelling that combines both the physical and emotional realms. The underwater setting allowed me to visually convey feelings of isolation and survival, while also diving deep into the psychological effects of confronting the unknown. Ultimately, Resurrection under the Ocean is a reflection on human survival, connection, and renewal, all set against one of the most powerful and mysterious forces in nature.”

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

“Watching the audience react to Resurrection under the Ocean in the feedback video was both humbling and exciting. It was incredible to hear their thoughts and to see how the film connected with them. The feedback was deeply insightful, and I was moved by the emotions it evoked. It reassured me that the story resonated with people, and it reinforced my passion for filmmaking.”


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EP. 1375 - Filmmakers Matthew Vargas & Ryan Wilson (STRING HEAD)

STRING HEAD, 7min., USA
Directed by Matthew Vargas
A man in bed, after failing to fall asleep, is forcefully kept awake by String Head – an entity made of string that psychologically tortures him by wrapping him in a cocoon made from the deepest, darkest thoughts of his mind.

Conversation with director Matthew Vargas & Cinematographer Ryan Wilson Subscribe to the podcast:

Get to know Matthew Vargas

What motivated you to make this film?
One night at 3:00 AM I had a vision of String Head walking into my room. A thread of red string was on top of me. Thinking of String Head at the end of my bed was a creepy fascinating image – I had to make it and explore it. I also wanted to push the boundaries with Production Design as I never have before and use it to really convey symbolism and tell a story.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?
I love the reactions and I feel so giddy about the different analyses. The positive reaction to the final song made my sound designer, Rochelle, very happy as they wrote + sang the song themselves under their artist name La Roche. The comparison of the film to night terrors that occur in real life was so on point that I felt a great sigh of relief. Many ideas had to be conveyed in this film and I feel as though they all landed. I was worried because there is no dialogue, but that is intentionally so in the film because these terribly anxious moments usually occur wordless and in the brain.

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EP. 1374 - Writer/Producer Virginia Duivenvoorden (KITE

KITE, 6min,. Canada
Directed by Jerry Trieus
A short film about a dancer on a mission to experience flight. The journey is disappointing and filled with challenges. The result is a transformation as the dance artist finds strength through perseverance and ultimately freedom.

Get to know writer/producer Virginia Duivenvoorden:

What motivated you to make this film?

Kite began as a stage piece where I incorporated film on stage in the form of projections. I knew that I eventually would like to also see it as a film on its own. It all began as a photograph by Brooke McAllister. in one of the photos, I was wearing a black skirt and dancing with a 7 yard piece of tulle fabric. I loved the photos. In 2021 I decided to choreograph a dance to match them. That’s when Kite was born. When I started the choreography, I was in too much physical pain to think about performing. That’s when Brynne Harper started working on KITE. We spent two years developing the stage piece and we shared it in three different performances two were outdoor performances and one on stage for a work in progress showing. I approached Kites in all aspects from building and flying them to studying the history. All of the processes became part of the kite story from the failed kites that never flew and then to the handmade windsocks , which were actually amazing. It became a story about transforming from looking outside oneself to looking inside and finding that sense of flight and freedom from within the body. That was a journey that I really needed to make in order to process what was happening in my body with the pain and other medical conditions that I was coping with during the creation process.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

I felt emotional seeing that the piece was clear in its message and was being received very much in the way that I had hoped for. It was rewarding to see that the message of resiliency and strength had shone through.

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EP. 1373 - Musicians Kevin Osorio, Felix Goransch, Sawyer Smith (NEW WORLD music video)

NEW WORLD, 3min,. USA
Directed by Kevin Brayant Osorio
New World is a chaotic and bizarre song, featuring a stop motion music video just as chaotic and just as bizarre. New World has an angular dark burn and a certain obliqueness. New World is the kind of chaos we all get

https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/faine1/faine
https://www.instagram.com/werefaine/

Get to know the filmmaker:

What motivated you to make this film?
Originally, we were going to make a hand drawn, frame by frame animation for the music video. It was laid out and storyboarded, but it didn’t pan out. The best alternate/immediate option seemed to be making a stop motion music video instead.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?
It’s very nice and flattering to see the audience’s reactions. Most times, you know people have viewed something you’ve made, but that doesn’t mean you’ve gotten a “reaction” from them; especially online. Creating can be very one sided. Initial/immediate reactions are interesting to me. You can only make one first impression.

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EP. 1372 - Filmmaker Mishka Bality (ATLS)

ATLS, 11min., Canada
Directed by Mishka Balilty
In a dystopian future where a powerful elite class prolongs their lives by exploiting young women for their babies’ organs, two women, find themselves on the run from their oppressors. Desperate to escape a fate of forced impregnation and organ extraction, they flee to a remote cabin. Their refuge becomes a sanctuary where they share their dreams and fears, finding solace in each other’s company. However, their fleeting happiness is overshadowed by the ever-looming threat of capture. Their love story, which began in desperation and hope, culminates in a tragic and devastating finale. ATLS is a powerful exploration of love, freedom, and the inescapable shadows of a world that seeks to tear them apart.

https://www.wtfimproductions.com/registration
https://www.facebook.com/wtfim
https://www.instagram.com/whothefuckismishka/

Get to know the filmmaker:

What motivated you to make this film?
I was inspired by Romeo and Juliet one day while listening to the soundtrack from the movie, I started to see this film come to life in my mind. I always loved the reading the play when I was younger… and so I began writing a tragic love story and soon I had a script.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?
I was very nervous how it would be received. But I was overjoyed to see that people understood our creative vision and enjoyed the film.


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EP. 1371 - Filmmaker Dale Loon (WAKING CONUNDRUM)

WAKING CONUNDRUM, 11min., Canada
Directed by Dale Loon, Alyssa-Rose Hunter
Waking up in a room with a ceiling that seems to never end. A man struggles with his memory of recent events but remembers everything else from the past. The man meets a woman and brings him down to great disbelief and shock that shakes every atom in his body. A scheme is planned to escape this room. But is the plan for real?

Get to know filmmaker Dale Loon:

What motivated you to make this film?

Your not gonna be so impressed, but at the time when I was in school. I came to a point where I needed a script in order to advance in the Toronto Film School program. And I only had one class, 4 hours to do it. 20 minutes was spent making beats of the story. Another 40 minutes character building. Then the last 3 hours was spend writing the script in a rush.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

The one thing I expected for sure was the unseen betrayal from Venora. The audience saw a connection sparking between them, then at the end? They were shocked and shooked. Everything I wrote is what I wanted in the audiences reactions, and it was puuuuurfect!

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EP. 1370 - Screenwriter A. E. Guaake (TRUST ME)

Watch the best scene reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMJRNPKTfgY

Get to know the writer:

What is your screenplay about?

My screenplay is about the Hulder, a mystical human-like creature with a cow’s tail, famous from Norwegian folklore, who has to go to Earth on a dangerous mission to con an orphan teenage boy in order to save her young brother from dying.

What genres does your screenplay fall under?

Adventure/Fantasy (low fantasy)

Why should this screenplay be made into a movie?

Because it is an action-packed story centred on making impossible choices, woven into a layered mystery where nothing is as it seems.

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EP. 1369 - Writer/Producer Graham John Lamb (TAINTED)

TAINTED, 11min,. Singapore
Directed by Ian Wee
In a world driven by corporate greed and unethical genetic experimentation, Darien, the pioneering human clone, finds himself obsolete against a superior 2nd Generation Clone, leading to his and his mentor’s targeting. Following his mentor’s death, Darien’s hidden hybrid nature—combining human and vampire DNA—surfaces during a critical confrontation, granting him unexpected survival. Marked as a “Tainted” failure yet possessing newfound powers, Darien faces an ambiguous future, embodying the narrative’s critique of ambition’s perils and the poignant fallout of manipulative sciences.

http://www.brightvoxelstudios.com/
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551387412655
https://www.instagram.com/film_tainted/

Get to know writer/producer Graham John Lamb:

What motivated you to make this film?

I was Virtual Production Supervisor on a film in Singapore, when the IMDA (InfoComm Media Development Authority Singapore) announced that they were funding projects in this particular area. My producer, director and director of photography were at the time over in the UK at the National Film and Television School also attending a Virtual Production immersion program aimed at industry professionals to learn about this new way of film making. So excited with this new surge of enthusiasm I asked Jeffrey about joining this content creation initiative and we all got together and created Tainted.

What were your initial reactions when watching the audience talking about your film in the feedback video?

Honestly I got a little teary, when I was looking at the reviews, I am greatly appreciative that the reviewers talk about the whole film in general from stunts, makeup, sound & music to performance and that really shows that the team was really the best – such a dynamic group all around and I have nothing but high praise for everyone involved.

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